Curse

Alicendre · Jun 13, 2010, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Let's get facts clear, people.
The majority of Ele skills have only one use, and that is damage. Therefore, they were made as a damaging class.
However, in general HM, they are mainly used for utility, and when they are used for damage it's in a single team setup. On the other hand, Rits and Mesmers are used as utility or damage, do both well, and there are Rits and Mesmers-only teams.

Eles fail as an offensive class.

maxxfury · Jun 13, 2010, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeyda

I want Elementalists to be comparable to other professions at dealing damage.

I want Elementalists to be comparable to other CASTER professions at dealing damage.

A slight rephrase to save the shitstorm replies that would come from wanting an elem to deal sin grade dps

But indeed, it would be nice wouldnt it!

so you dont feel like your elem is a gimp next to the alternatives..as you say, whether you can do it all anyway cos the majority is cake in the first place

comparatively low dps when matched to the other casters.

Xenomortis · Jun 13, 2010, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

I want Elementalists to be comparable to other CASTER professions at dealing damage.

Nerf Ritualists (namely their spirits) then.
That leaves the Necromancer. Given though, that Necros generally act as a damage multiplier in what are regarded as their strong damage builds, I'm not sure how much nerfing is required on that front.
The strongest damage build a Nec has independent of team composition is the Order of Undeath Minion Master setup, which is somewhat ridiculous if a little unstable, so nerf that. Of course, you still need to ensure human MMs can outperform hero minion bombers so make sure you don't kill OoU (unless you nerf Death Nova or something).

maxxfury · Jun 13, 2010, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Nerf Ritualists (namely their spirits) then.

Solid start eh :P

Myotheraccount · Jun 13, 2010, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Ensign hasn't said anything that contradicts or argues against Jeydra's position.

If you think that way, you can't read.

Quote:

But that is not relevant. I don't waltz into PvE on my own - I typically enter battle with 7 (sometimes 3 or 5, but the results are the same) teammates.

It is relevant when you have limited party space. Also means that Ele spikes are more reliable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicendre

Let's get facts clear, people.
The majority of Ele skills have only one use, and that is damage. Therefore, they were made as a damaging class.
However, in general HM, they are mainly used for utility, and when they are used for damage it's in a single team setup. On the other hand, Rits and Mesmers are used as utility or damage, do both well, and there are Rits and Mesmers-only teams.

Eles fail as an offensive class.

You made me laugh so hard here. QQ so strong. No really Fire Magic is the only pure damage attribute Eles have, everything else is support with Blind/Weakness/Snare. So Eles have only one attribute dedicated solely to dealing damage.

maxxfury · Jun 13, 2010, 03:44 PM // 15:44

+Kd's for disruptions and interrupts for fire magic.. and shower is often taken for its kd's over its pure damage outputs.

Lishy · Jun 13, 2010, 03:50 PM // 15:50

I think the greatest problem with elementalists is that if we buff them too much, it would overpower Hm enemies.

Elementalists themselves aren't at fault, but damage calculations with armor.

A quick band-aid fix though is to change their skills to give them the upperhand without enemies being able to abuse them easily. Energy Blast and Intensity could be changed for armor penetration, for example. And another skill aids with skill recharges (Which are a huge problem I've found)

Myotheraccount · Jun 13, 2010, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lishy

I think the greatest problem with elementalists is that if we buff them too much, it would overpower Hm enemies.

Elementalists themselves aren't at fault, but damage calculations with armor.

A quick band-aid fix though is to change their skills to give them the upperhand without enemies being able to abuse them easily. Energy Blast and Intensity could be changed for armor penetration, for example. And another skill aids with skill recharges (Which are a huge problem I've found)

Exactly. That's what I been saying as well. All that is required is to reduce armor values against elemental damage of HM mobs to bring non-armor ignoring damage in par with armor ignoring.

Alicendre · Jun 13, 2010, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

You made me laugh so hard here. QQ so strong. No really Fire Magic is the only pure damage attribute Eles have, everything else is support with Blind/Weakness/Snare. So Eles have only one attribute dedicated solely to dealing damage.

Sure, all other attributes have supporting abilites. Yet, they don't have a single attribute where at least half their skill don't deal damage (or enhance it). They were made a damaging class.

Xenomortis · Jun 13, 2010, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

It is relevant when you have limited party space. Also means that Ele spikes are more reliable.

Even in 4 man areas I can construct a sufficient support structure to make reliable the higher damage capacity of physicals given the lack of severe melee hate in those areas (The worst case are the 4 man areas in NF - a whopping 4 areas and 1 mission).
Elemantalist and caster damage is more reliable, yes. It's just significantly worse.

Myotheraccount · Jun 13, 2010, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Even in 4 man areas I can construct a sufficient support structure to make reliable the higher damage capacity of physicals given the lack of severe melee hate in those areas (The worst case are the 4 man areas in NF - a whopping 4 areas and 1 mission).

Hmm, what do 4 man areas have to do with all of this?

Quote:

Elemantalist and caster damage is more reliable, yes. It's just significantly worse.

Nope, not much worse at all. Ele damage is solid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicendre

Sure, all other attributes have supporting abilites. Yet, they don't have a single attribute where at least half their skill don't deal damage (or enhance it). They were made a damaging class.

Just because an attribute deals some damage doesn't make it a pure damage attribute.
Water Magic, Air Magic and Earth Magic revolve mainly around debuffing the opponent or self-defense. They were never supposed to deal heavy damage or it would be too imba. They aren't a pure damage class, you are clueless.

Xenomortis · Jun 13, 2010, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Hmm, what do 4 man areas have to do with all of this?

Limited party space? Is your entire argument based on the usefulness of Elementalists in a hapless pickup group?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Nope, not much worse at all. Ele damage is solid.

And now we've come back to the start.

Myotheraccount · Jun 13, 2010, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Limited party space? Is your entire argument based on the usefulness of Elementalists in a hapless pickup group?

Limited party space can be created by other factors, not just party size. You may have to dedicate allot of space to utility or splits to such a point that your team can no longer house a MoP Nec and two Wars (or other spikers). Thats where Ele's ability to dish out massive damage alone shines. Good example are 4T FoW or certain DoA setups. I see your entire expirience in GW is limited just by pickup groups and H/H. How sad. :S

Quote:

And now we've come back to the start.

Yup. Hence my argument has been proven right.

Arato · Jun 13, 2010, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManlyMan

So i've picked up the Ele class recently, for both pvp and pvm, and after reading this thread. What heck are you all smoking? Ele is pretty darn awesome, you people sure know how to make mountains out of ant hills.

Playing low level normal mode, yes, ele is awesome. Try playing high level hard mode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan
Hard mode foes should have high armor and health from higher levels.

Then there should be no armor ignoring damage, so that going to hard mode effects everyone equally.

Cuilan · Jun 14, 2010, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arato

Then there should be no armor ignoring damage, so that going to hard mode effects everyone equally.

That actually wouldn't effect everyone equally.

Lanier · Jun 14, 2010, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Exactly. That's what I been saying as well. All that is required is to reduce armor values against elemental damage of HM mobs to bring non-armor ignoring damage in par with armor ignoring.

This would be the best way to buff eles imo. Make them effective at what they are supposed to be effective at.

saint666 · Jun 14, 2010, 05:27 AM // 05:27

^

Weaken Armor says hello.

UnChosen · Jun 14, 2010, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint666

^

Weaken Armor says hello.

Slot 1 - Fire/Air/Earth/Water Attunement
Slot 2 - Glyph of Lesser Energy
Slot 3 - Aura of Restoration (Cover enchant)
Slot 4 - Mindbender (Reduce long cast time)
Slot 5 - Assassin's Promise / Air of Superiority (Reduce ridiculous recharge)
Slot 6 - Weaken Armor
Slot 7 - Rez

Slot 8 -

Care to think of more skills to cover the eles' huge list of weaknesses?

Malician · Jun 14, 2010, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Slot 1 - Fire/Air/Earth/Water Attunement
Slot 2 - Glyph of Lesser Energy
Slot 3 - Aura of Restoration (Cover enchant)
Slot 4 - Mindbender (Reduce long cast time)
Slot 5 - Assassin's Promise / Air of Superiority (Reduce ridiculous recharge)
Slot 6 - Weaken Armor
Slot 7 - Rez

Slot 8 -

Care to think of more skills to cover the eles' huge list of weaknesses?

dude, that's like a Ranger build for an Ele. it fails miserably at covering every angle while doing absolutely nothing useful!

Ele = heal for now. My AP spikes aren't much fun without Mindbender and as for the rest.. fail.

Countess Marie · Jun 14, 2010, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Hey buddies...

I want to clarify a few things.

First of all, I wasn't saying that dealing 282 dmg in 1 second is great. The part I thought was interesting was it saying 4 second kill. Nothing else you posted other than the scythe sin w/ pve buffs was less than that.

MoP is an amazing skill now with all things considered. Especially with the increased attack speed from consumables and summons. I could see nerfing that skill pretty hard (to barbs level, even.) SoS isn't that overpowered. The overpowered part is painful bond. Could also be controlled in some way... maybe made so it's not nearby or made so it has a hit limit.

I'll say it again for people who weren't listening: ele dmg output is not bad it's just that they have to build for dmg and then they have no other real use. The second part is the main issue. Melee can 'tank' and then you throw mop on someone and nuke everything. There's no way to fix that, tbh.

But if you had a nuker for every war plus the MoP the dmg output would be insane.

That's all.

-CM